Nailing It 27: Charley Vahler - Stephanie Campanella

Nailing It 27: Charley Vahler

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Stephanie Campanella
October 17th 2019

 

Stephanie:
All right, done. Well, hey,

Charlie, welcome to the podcast.

Charley:
Thanks, Stephanie, it’s a pleasure to be here.

Stephanie:
Now I think we’re doing a bit of a swap here. I happened to be on yours I think last week, was it? Early last week?

Charley:
Absolutely.

Stephanie:
And now, this week you’re on mine.

Charley:
This is how this industry works. This is the reason I love podcasting so much, is the reciprocation, is we’ve had a chance, we had an enjoyable experience. I loved having you on my show and we got to talk about podcasting, which led to an opportunity I like to call it, where I got to come on your show. So I’d be keen to drop at the start here is if you want to be a guest on more podcasts, like one of the best things you can do is have a podcast. What is it, reciprocity?

Stephanie:
Well, I mean this kind of wraps into our entire topic today. Charlie and I are talking podcasts. So Charlie’s from Vanher. Now I don’t want to say this incorrectly, Valher Media.

Charley:
I’ll tell you what. I really wish I could be Charlie Smith. I mean, it’s you know… yeah, Valher. So it’s an interesting spelling. So it’s V-A-L-H-E-R and it’s Valher.

Stephanie:
Yeah. Okay. It’s like I get nervous and then when I go to say someone’s name, I know exactly how to say it, but then I just like, is it this? I’m like, “Oh, you’ve just stuffed it Steph.”

Charley:
And the nerves are there when it’s being recorded. This is one of the things, isn’t it?

Stephanie:
And on video.

Stephanie:
Thank you for turning up with your hair done.

Charley:
I mentioned this before the show for the watchers, but Stephanie made an awesome comment before our podcast. She asked if I was recording video and then the next thing she said is, “I better do my hair.” And then I took the irony. I thought I would say the same thing back to Stephanie today, not realizing that I was having a little bit of a challenging hair day. So I have spent the last 20 minutes trying to deal with my hair.

Stephanie:
You look fine.

All right, so let’s jump in. So Charlie, you help business owners leverage podcasts to help, well basically to become like a growth engine for their business, yeah?

Charley:
Absolutely. That’s the best way to describe what we do.

Stephanie:
Sick. So typically what sort of customer comes to you?

Charley:
Yeah, so most commonly, or the people I like working with, the most I should say, is experts. I love people that are really knowledgeable and have a great expertise on a topic.

Now I’m not particularly concerned what that topic is, it might be investing. It might be a health-related topic or fitness, it could be agency, it could be marketing. There’s a whole range of that world where work goes. But what I want is people who really know their stuff. And the reason I want that is when people really know their stuff, they often make fantastic quality contact.

And when I can find someone that’s got a great expertise on a topic or what I kind of like to think about it is what we specialize in as being the petrol on the fire. Because I can amplify that message through podcasting. And I know if we do that well and strategically, that it will lead to a lot of leads, a lot of sales, a lot of email list growth, a lot of things that we’ll consider marketing assets or that would drive revenue in a business.

So experts, I would say is the main category. It’s not limited to that in some ways, but they’re the people who tend to get like the best results with us.

Stephanie:
And you’ve just mentioned, you know, leads and you know, profit and sales and cashflow and all this kind of stuff. So, a big question from probably from the audience, can a podcast actually help grow your business? Can it generate sales?

Charley:
Absolutely. We’re doing this a lot at the moment. I’ll tell you about… I’ll share a story here because this was something that I think really opened my eyes to it, is that, I would say about three or four years ago, I was a guest on a podcast, where someone invited me to come on their show. It was a reasonably big show. And what I couldn’t believe is that after appearing on that show, when it was published, people who listened to that episode of the podcast, basically it was like the easiest sales I’ve ever made. Like, “Hey, I want what you have. How do I pay you?”

It was like, “Oh, our other sales calls feel a lot harder than this.”

Stephanie:
Yeah, right.

Charley:
And then I was like, “Oh, maybe there’s something to this.” And then we started our own podcast back then. And a similar thing happened. So I realized I didn’t just need to be a guest on other people’s shows, that if I had my own show that that was also going to be a way to create that type of opportunity for business.

And I’m a really big believer, it’s like when you find a winner, when you find something that’s working, go hard on it, like lean in.

Stephanie:
Go all in.

Charley:
Yeah. So we did. And what was fascinating on the back of that is that as we started to do our own show and started to make things in this space, people started asking, “How did you do that? I want to do that.” And we started kind of getting, you know, the first base of Valher Media is we got the clients kind of accidentally it was intended to be my resource. Like it was just to make my podcast to do this, and then Valher Media progressively turned it into, we started servicing, initially, some of my friends in business. And then now it’s gotten bigger to the point where more people want to create that type of experience. So the more we leaned in, and that’s been the experience since then.

Stephanie:
Right. Wow. Awesome. So really it was, it all sort of began because you dipped your toe in it and you sort of got the feel of how this whole thing can work.

Charley:
Absolutely.

Stephanie:
And how long have you been going at it for?

Charley:
So I mean a rough timeline, so don’t hold me to exacts here, but we did our own show about three or four years ago. Grew that show, learned a lot from that experience. Honestly, I struggled with my own show for the first six months.

Charley:
We were just trying to work out, you know, how to publish, “What’s this editing thing?” And then after that we grew the show substantially. We worked out some great ways to advertise and grow, which was great. But then at a point realized, hang on a second, we kind of did the show the wrong way. We didn’t put enough intent into it. So as we started working with clients, we started to see that there were certain things you could do in a show to see even more success. And I’ll give you one right off the bat, is we went way too wide with our first podcast and I know something you’re a really big fan of is niching. We just didn’t do that, at all.

Stephanie:
Right. And so for the first six months you are kind of like, you know, lacking intent, lacking direction?

Charley:
The struggle was. When you go too broad… So we were just like, I see this all the time. It’s like basically any business owner with a pulse was our market. And then after a while what got difficult was communicating directly to them, and then cutting through the noise.

So we just weren’t specific enough because the conversations weren’t relevant enough. And then the other side of that is like when you’re trying to make lead magnets or trying to take people from being listeners of your podcast into let’s say being on your email list, or to buy a product and service your product or service has to be so general, it’s almost boring. It’s not specific for anyone. So that was like just a massive like, “Ah…”

Stephanie:
Oh. It’s like how do you even name like a freebie, your lead gen piece, if you don’t know who you’re talking to, what colors do you use? Like…

Charley:
Absolutely. Like this is where it just, it falls so, I mean I’m speaking to someone who gets me right now, so it’s like, so I’m preaching to the converted, but in general like we didn’t realize how much of a mistake we made then.

Stephanie:
Yeah. Right. Wow. So you attract experts that want to build a podcast and you help them basically, you know, get online, you know, help… do you help from a setting up perspective, a recording respective like an editing… How much of you do they get when they work with you and your team?

Charley:
That’s a fantastic question. This is something I’ve really been trying to articulate better. So at its core, the company isn’t just me. We have a fantastic team with it, which makes all the difference from there.

The editing and production side of it is a huge part of it. I don’t expect experts to be able to edit a podcast, upload it to Libsyn, like any of that stuff, make it look good, make a graphic or write the show notes, like all that stuff, the production side of it is, you know, handled by a team.

But then the other side of it is, I have a very vested interest in the shows being successful. So if I let the clients just record what they want, or if I don’t give them structure to recording, or bring in suggestions on like how to make an intro or where they lead people to after their podcast or how it’s promoted, then things tend to get a little bit sideways, because that’s not their expertise.

So what I’ve attempted to build here and what’s working really well for us, is yes we do the production and an editing side of things and that’s a big part of it. But then the other side of it is we provide strategy, structure and then the promotion and publishing element as well.

Stephanie:
Right. Wow. So it is a real sort of done-with-you, done-for-you kind of process there.

Charley:
As highly leveraged as it can be. My idea for this was, “I want you to record and then just give me the files and then that’s it.” Like that’s a level we want to play at.

Stephanie:
So basically like your tagline is like, “Shut up and record.”

Charley:
I’m just going to update our website quickly. I think that’s fantastic.

Stephanie:
You know, and this is why we’re here. You know, just putting together little bite-sized pitches.

Charley:
Well I just want to give you the reverse of that. I’ve got, I mean I’ve got an experience I had yesterday, I spoke to a guy yesterday, one of the most knowledgeable people I have seen when it comes to teams, like phenomenal. And for the last year, he has worked on his podcast and struggled away at to get a whopping 40 downloads a week.

Now I would be gutted if one of my shows performed like that. And I look at it now and it’s like, as much as he’s gained a lot of experience, as much as he’s learned a lot from that, he’s wasted a whole year trying to get a podcast off the ground by not just using someone who actually knew what they’re doing.

And then I look at the reverse, is I’ve got a client of ours and his name’s Jared, phenomenal guy. Again, he’s an expert in his space in the coaching space. He’s been working with us for, I think it’s just coming up to five months now. And in that time he showed, he’s cracked 7,000 downloads like this week.

Stephanie:
Wow.

Charley:
And it’s pumping out leads and sales for his business. So he’s ecstatic and like I look at the two stories there and I go, “Okay, there’s certainly method to using professionals or getting guidance with these things. Like all things.”

Stephanie:
Yeah, of course. I mean SEO, right? Like you could do a little bit yourself or you could use an expert.

Charley:
Yeah, absolutely.

Stephanie:
Yeah. Okay, awesome. I mean, what is the biggest thing that differentiates someone from, you know, a hundred downloads a week, let’s say, to your 7,000 like what is the tipping point there?

Charley:
That’s a really good question as well. I really, it’s such a good question. In general, right? It’s often not the quality of the content. This is the phenomenal thing is like, and you can think about this with books as well. There’s some some books out there that no one knows about them, but are phenomenal. The quality of the content is great, but the way they’ve been promoted, the way they’ve been positioned, the way they’ve niched, even if the content is relevant, all these elements really kind of come into it from there. And then in more recent times, what I think is making the difference between people who are getting traction or not getting traction, is their ability to leverage social media platforms and not just being on things like iTunes, like to really omni-presence approach.

Stephanie:
Yeah. Right. So, I mean like I love your analogy about the book. Like you can write the most amazing book, but if no one knows about it, it’s just a really big secret.

Charley:
Yeah. And there’s tons of podcasts like that. So many.

Stephanie:
Cool. Okay. So you really take someone’s, you know, idea and content. They’re an expert in their field. They want to spread their message. They don’t have the time, or they shouldn’t be doing this. Like they shouldn’t be doing the editing and all that sort of stuff.

Charley:
Definitely shouldn’t be doing it.

Stephanie:
And yeah, you basically pick that up and just orchestrate and amplify basically.

Charley:
Yeah, absolutely.

Stephanie:
Yeah, sweet, cool. What’s the biggest like kick out of it all that you get, like from more, you know, experience perspective? Like why do you love it?

Charley:
It’s an interesting kind of question again, it’s like when I used to have a marketing agency, like going years back, that was one of my first businesses and I had a phenomenal thing. And like what used to really blow my mind, is that we would be able to influence people to make decisions. All right, and I know this sounds crazy, but it’s like, it was insane to think that the way we would write something would get someone to buy something. Like we were actually influencing the flow of money into the ecosystem or the economic system, so to speak.

What is kind of still very crazy to me in this game, is that when we’re able to work with people and create great content and great podcasts, is it actually can like really have an impact, not only on a business, but changing someone’s life.

Like the information they’re getting out there actually does good for society in general or a certain segment in audience. So to think that we’re playing a role in that and doing some good and helping business owners put food on the table or provide for their families and things like that, is still something that I really enjoy.

And then the other side of it is like, I’m a data geek. I absolutely love seeing the impact of how we behave in shows and then watching our charts fly up or looking how that’s having impacted in other areas of a business.

Stephanie:
Right. So there’s a real, like, I guess it’s a bit of fun, involved. You know, you’re opening doors, you’re providing value, they’re all sort of good feelings that you’re getting.

Charley:
Isn’t that like the ultimate sweet spot, if you’re…

Stephanie:
To actually have fun and enjoy work?

Charley:
I made the joke, it’s like I’m obviously a big podcast listener as well. Like I love podcasts. And often I’ll listen to our own shows or shows or shows I like when I get to go for a walk. I’m like, I’ll come back and I forget I’m working. Like that’s just part of the role.

So to have those moments makes it really enjoyable. So the medium I enjoy, the content I enjoy. And then the other side is like the meeting of… solving a problem. So helping people with podcasting, we’re definitely fulfilling something that the market needs, is this massive crossover where the business just becomes way more enjoyable for me.

Stephanie:
Yeah right. You know, when you think about niching, has there been a point when you’ve thought about sort of, you know, jumping from this niche to another, like you know, sort of, “Oh, it’s all too hard,” or, “I’m thinking too small, I’m digging too deep.” Like have they sort of feelings come up with you?

Charley:
Absolutely. How could they not be? Actually, before we got straight into podcasting, we were actually going to go a little bit wider. We were going to un-niche a little bit and go into like I suppose helping YouTubers in the shows as well. Because there is a lot of crossover between those two. I’m not even going to deny it. Podcasters tend to speak a different language to YouTubers though, which is the ultimate reason we decided against this.

But there was actually like a little bit of fear of like is this niche too narrow? Which I think is natural when you niche, but overall we obviously got over my own problem. But, I had to look at the data here and it was like, in 2019 over $500 million is being spent on advertising in podcasts, and by 2022 they expect that to be a billion. And I was like, “Right, between this billion dollars.”

Stephanie:
“Me and this billion need to talk.”

Charley:
Exactly.

Stephanie:
Sweet. I’m wondering, you know, is there some life skills that you have, that have also helped apply you to this business? Is this some stuff that you’ve taken personally and applied it in this?

Charley:
Yeah. Look for me, there’s two things I do outside of business, which I think have massively contributed to business skills, so to speak. So one of them is cycling. I’m a very, very avid cyclist. I love cycling. I do that nearly every day. And then the other one is cooking, which I’m the head chef of this household, I like to call it. And like both of them have played a tremendous role in a business success for me and have for many, many years.

Stephanie:
Sweet. So tell me about your cycling. You do it every day?

Charley:
Yeah, it’s gotten that way. It’s funny how I got into cycling. I was actually a CrossFitter many, many years ago. Don’t hate me. But I was terrible at cardio. I was getting smashed on cardio. Like they’d be like these, you know, sessions where you’d have to lift weights and run. And I’d be killing it on the weight lifting. But like if I had to run 500 meters, like it was over, over.

So my wife suggested, “Oh, you should get a bike. Like you should try cycling, seeing how that goes for you.” And like I bought a bike, and two rides in I got addicted, like absolutely addicted. It was the most fun I’d had exercising, ever. And then on the back of that, like it’s transformed into something where I ride every day and I have raced in the past and done things from there. But cycling is this really, really interesting sport and hobby and leisure all in one.

And it’s like seemingly very boring. Like I still can’t believe I do it. Like, it seems like the variety to turning pedals is not there at all.

Stephanie:
It’s very, yeah, mindless almost. Yeah. Like there’s nothing to it.

Charley:
But that’s almost it. Like it’s… and this will sound strange, but like cycling for me has many elements that people talk about when it comes to meditation. It’s very meditative, very restorative.

Stephanie:
100%. Yeah.

Charley:
So when I noticed that like I was getting these huge gains from like mindset, just feeling good, like all the time I was happier, healthier, business was running more smoothly, I was more calm and making better weighted decisions, less emotional to the day overall. And then of course all the other health benefits that come from exercising and…

Stephanie:
Being healthy in general.

Charley:
Yeah. So I was like, “Well this just seems like a winning formula for me.” And then once again, once I find that winning formula or thing that’s working for me, just lean in, do more of it.

Stephanie:
Stick to it, yeah. Go all in, so to say.

Charley:
Absolutely.

Stephanie:
Awesome. So thank you to the wife for that one.

Charley:
Yeah, absolutely. Although I wonder now, like obviously being, I do it all the time and buy bikes and all these things. I’m like I wonder if there’s any regret in that.

Stephanie:
Yeah, “I wish… God damn it. Why did I say that?”

Stephanie:
One quick one on your personal cooking, what’s your favorite thing to make?

Charley:
I go through phases. So for me it’s like I like learning a new dish and then getting to master it. And the first dish I mastered is one that I love, but unfortunately it’s like I cooked it way too many times. So at the moment I’m not cooking it. It was paella. I really like a good paella.

Stephanie:
Oh my God.

Charley:
So I went down that way and then after it I was like, “Oh I think I want to learn how to do…” I can’t remember what I watched, some US Texan thing and I’m like “Right, I want to learn how to do a Texas Chilli.” So it went that way for a while and then I’ve been building up my skills in that area.

Then I went through a breakfast phase, so like pretty much we were having like a massive brunch and breakfast in the house every day, and then just not eating in the afternoons because we were so full it was funny. But, they’re kind of the ways I’ve gone with cooking-

Stephanie:
Yeah, right.

Charley:
… and why I’ve loved cooking so much is that working in a digital world, I’m confident you may relate to this, but you can’t touch anything.

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Charley:
There’s no-

Stephanie:
Everything’s just a figment of your imagination.

Charley:
Which is amazing firsthand. I still can’t believe that, the way the internet works. But on the other side of things, that physical element and creation zone has been just so awesome for me. I really enjoy it.

Stephanie:
Yeah. I think I’m a big fan of getting out all the lasagna kit and making a lasagna. A few lasagnas for the week and just having like a little lasagna cook-off on a Saturday, let’s say.

Charley:
Good choice, great choice.

Stephanie:
Yeah. Are you more of a, what do you say, like a dinner person or a dessert person or…

Charley:
I’m certainly lacking in some dessert skills, yeah.

Stephanie:
Me too. It’s tough.

Charley:
But I feel like that’s the easiest one to overcome. Like there’s easily good treats you can buy, but I feel like it’s harder to create a good dinner or get any dinner I would make on demand.

Stephanie:
I think it’s much more complex.

Charley:
Absolutely.

Stephanie:
Right, food aside, because we’re probably making everyone really hungry. Daily habits. So we’ve spoken about like cycling and like putting, you know, your bit of energy in there and it’s almost like meditation, 100%. So what are you sort of your big habits for every single day?

Charley:
Yeah, a great question.

Stephanie:
Like.

Charley:
I would say that someone who’s had a huge effect on me like a long time ago was probably Tim Ferriss. And his experimentation and ideas around, like there’s no one size that fits all, or one habit set that fits all. And it can be one of the best things you can do is to experiment and learn what works for you and what doesn’t work for you.

So I tried a whole variety of things, whether it be journaling or to go through from there. And I’ve come back to these being like my set, that kind of works for me. Some of these may work for you, some of these may work for people listening to this right now, but it’s like, you know, no guarantees. I think we’re all a little bit different.

So for me, getting up early has definitely been something that I look at and go being up at like 5:00 AM or around that time, most days, has certainly been better for my flow and energy management.

Then I get a lot more out of the day starting early. The first thing I do every day is education time. So I put in new knowledge for my brain, which is either, could be courses, could be books, could be podcasts, could be blog research, could be documents I want to read, like I don’t limit what it is, but every morning I prioritize learning. That’s one of the first things I do. Because I just think that’s such an important element. We live in a world that is moving so fast, and if you’re on the front of understanding on topics of interest or things that will benefit you, you stand to do a lot more there.

Then I exercise. So I always go for a ride. Or you know, I live in Melbourne, so like let’s be real. You can’t ride every day in Melbourne some days are disgusting. So I have an indoor trainer. Or I might go to the gym occasionally, but I always do some exercise, every day.

And then the third thing which I’ve really introduced, is I always make sure that I’m surrounding myself with people that I want to be like.

Stephanie:
Yeah. That’s a big one.

Charley:
Huge. Absolutely huge. Whether that’s Facebook conversation or on the phone or in person. There’s always some sort of element of connecting with people at the level I want to play. And as long as I hit them consistently and do my cooking in the evening, I’m a pretty happy guy.

Stephanie:
Awesome. Tell me what’s the best thing about being in business?

Charley:
I’ll say it’s… the best thing about being in business… There’s so many, but for me what’s insane, is the, like I consider business as like this massive, enjoyable game. Okay, the most stimulating and enjoyable game we can play.

What’s insane to me is that I get to also make a living from that. Like it feels hobbyist to me, to a degree.

Stephanie:
Yeah. It’s crazy.

Charley:
Yeah.

Stephanie:
You actually get to do exactly what you want to do.

Charley:
Yeah, and I mean my old default comment would be, it was like the best and worst thing is like you get to do whatever you want.

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Charley:
But further on from that, I’ve enjoyed it more and more. And like I really feel very blessed and lucky to get to live life the way I do now. Like it’s, I think for many people, how I get to live my life would probably be their, like dream lifestyle. I have to be very grateful that, you know, I don’t have to go for a nine to five.

Stephanie:
Yeah, exactly. And you have to get up at five. You choose to get up at five.

Charley:
Absolutely.

Stephanie:
What’s actually the worst thing about running a biz?

Charley:
I guess that depends how you think about this. I think the worst thing about running a business is definitely, well, I mean this is obviously, I’m not going to paraphrase for anyone else. This is my perspective here, but from my point of view, the worst thing about having a business is that, at points you don’t get the option to turn it off.

Stephanie:
Yeah.

Charley:
So I think if, I mean these days I’m very lucky I have a great team. If I want to take a week off, I can go, “See you in a week, guys,” and they’ll be right.

Stephanie:
Yeah, “Charley, no!”

Charley:
They’ll be like, “Oh, great, we don’t have to listen to your horrible dad jokes anymore, yay.” But I’m very fortunate in that time now, but previously, you know, in growing to this point, there’s clearly times where I was burnt out as all Hell. And should have had a week off or should have restoratively done things, but was just so loaded that there was only one way through, that was forward.

And I think this is pretty common these days where I’m saying, I’m sure you see this as well. Maybe I should ask, do you see this? How many burnt-out business owners do you know?

Stephanie:
Oh, so many. And they’re so busy. I think that’s like the tipping point. Like, “I’m so busy.” It’s like, oh, I don’t know about you, but I’m not busy. It’s like a pride or medal that people wear and then yeah, they’re so busy that they just fall completely flat on their face.

Charley:
So they’re so busy underperforming that they just, that’s where they exist. I couldn’t agree more.

Stephanie:
Yeah. The staffing thing’s a massive thing that I always hear too. You know, “I don’t have enough time to process or delegate something, it’ll take me just as long to do it myself, so I might as well do it myself,” kind of thing. And it’s like, “Oh, you need to get out of that kind of thinking.”

Charley:
Isn’t it fascinating how much that particular comment will hold someone back?

Stephanie:
Oh, absolutely.

Charley:
I love this one as well, “Oh, I can never find good people.”

Stephanie:
“Oh good people are so hard to find.”

Charley:
Like excellent. Keep thinking that, I will have all the good people then.

Stephanie:
Yeah, I will keep attracting really awesome people. I don’t know where they come from.

Charley:
Plenty for everyone really.

Stephanie:
All right. So if an audience member wants to podcast, what should they do?

Charley:
Oh, good question. So, I mean the first thing I would do if you’re someone who’s watching this and you’re saying, “Could podcasting be right for me?” The first thing I would say to do is dive into some podcasts.

Charley:
You’re already listening to this one, but have a look at the medium and see if you think it would be something that suits you. So if you’re keen to do a podcast already, you probably love the medium or doing something from there. I think that’s a good first step.

Charley:
The second thing I would do, is really look into how much your skill capacity is to do it yourself or whether you want to leverage other people to do it faster with an organization like mine. So your audience, Stephanie, is a lot of like agency owners or creative owners or marketers. Their tech tolerance is probably a lot higher than let’s say if we went into the fitness market for example.

Stephanie:
Yeah, sure, sure.

Charley:
So some people on here might be savvy enough to go, “Do you know what? This is something I can do myself. Maybe I just need to read some books or get some education here.” And you might be okay.

But if you’re the type of person, like I’m going to say I’m going to put me in this category. I had to see like, “What’s the point in doing things slow?” Like it fascinates me how people will go, “Oh, I’ll just dwell alone, do it slowly myself, maybe get five listeners and then then it peaks. It’s like I just don’t see a point in that. Like I think life rewards those who want to go faster. And if you fall into that camp, then you know, you can use a company like mine, Valher Media, or find one similar and go, “Right, let’s swing for the fence. Like what could it look like if a podcast was the main revenue driver for us, if this is where all our leads in marketing were coming from or the majority, could this be how we structure things?” And then based on that question, reverse engineer it on, “What would it need to look like?”

Stephanie:
Yeah, right. I want to repeat that. You know, could a podcast be the main source for where my revenue is coming from? Like that’s really something to consider.

Charley:
And very possible.

Stephanie:
And very possible. Like Charley, you speak about the traffic coming from some of your shows. And I’ve seen some of your screenshots on socials. It’s insane what you’re doing.

Charley:
It’s a fun sport. It is. It really, really is.

Stephanie:
Sick. Awesome. Well, Charley, thank you so much for coming on here today.

Charley:
It’s been my absolute pleasure, Stephanie.

Stephanie:
If you want to know more about Charley and valhermedia.com then head there, and check it out for yourself. Sweet.

Connect with Charley and his team here: https://www.valhermedia.com/